The power of good conversations

I’ve been reading “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Deeply and Being Deeply Seen” by David Brooks.

About halfway through he discusses that if you truly want to see someone, and be seen yourself, talking, listening, and hearing is where you need to start.

If a person is a point of view, then to know them well you have to actually ask them how they view things. This applies to new or old friends, romantic partners, family members, work colleagues, teammates, etc.

In other words, to delve into and see how a person ticks you have to start with conversation. But, good conversations are harder to come by than we think.

Someone who just tells funny stories or recites scholarly points of view is not a good conversationalist, but a comedian or a lecturer.

Instead, a good conversationalist is a master of fostering two-way exchanges, someone capable of “leading people on a mutual expedition to understanding” - even if that understanding is disagreement.

In other words, a good conversation is an act of joint exploration with no desired outcome other than to see each other and feel seen.

One person opens the conversation with a half-formed idea, the other picks up and adds to it, the first then twists it but opens a germane yet fresh dialogue, and then maybe the two hone in on an understanding or take-away.

Rinse and repeat.

The beauty in a good conversation is, like the above, any direction the conversation goes is informed by the individuals’ points of views and now are shared in open air, for everyone to see (hear).

But, still, good conversation is easier said than done (pun intended).

As Brooks calls out, “…being a mediocre conversationalist is easy. Being a good conversationalist is hard.”

Plus, we all think we’re better conversationalists than we actually are…

So, how do we have better conversations with those in our lives and, as a result, see those around us more effectively, make them feel seen, while also feeling more seen ourselves?

1) Pay 100% attention.

This, in and of itself, is half the battle.

How can we possibly entertain a “good conversation” if we’re not fully present?

The interesting part of “paying attention”, however, is that maybe we think we’re paying attention. Be it with someone right in front of us physically or through a computer screen.

But if the other person doesn’t feel that we are paying attention then the “joint exploration” doesn’t feel so mutual - more so like a chat with a brick wall.

Start by “paying attention” to your body language and eliminating distractions.

Following the SLANT method, Brooks shares, is the most physical way to pay attention and make sure the person you’re speaking to feels your attention:

Sit up.

Lean forward.

Ask questions.

Nod your head.

Track the speaker. Listen with your eyes.

It’s funny, after simply being aware of SLANT and how my body language, even while I am paying attention, may tell my counterpart otherwise.

Heck, as I’ve reflected, I’ve done the opposite of SLANT probably countless times:

My torso facing away, but head still straight. Right leg folded over to the left. Body leaning back on my chair. Eyes looking across the horizon. Hands clasped behind my head. My typical “thinking” body language.

Exaggerated or not, poor body language habits are easy to fall into and hard to notice, especially in remote work environments.

But, using SLANT has already improved my conversations, and, in turn grown my executive presence, encouraged more thoughtful feedback, and, while I assume, made my team feel more seen because, in their eyes, I am paying more or better attention to them.

By no means should we act robotically: back perfectly straight, piercing eyes, and automatic nods…but, some mindfulness around our body language goes miles in having better and good conversations.

On the receiving end, actually feeling your counterpart’s attention is refreshing.

2) Don’t fear the “pause”

So many of our favorite conversations in life are rapid-fire, or when we finish each others’ sentences, laugh deeply, and feel a buzz from being so intensely drawn in.

This makes sense: Good conversations are meant to leave you with an energy any other superficial conversation wouldn’t, be it enlightening, humbling, tiring, lifting, etc.

Often overlooked as one of the enabling characteristics of good conversations, though, is the “pause” we take to truly listen to and magnify a point.

The idea behind taking a “pause” is that sometimes dialogue requires reflection before we respond.

As Kate Murphy mentions in her book “You’re Not Listening”, “If a story someone is telling you starts at the shoulder and ends at the fingertips, where do we stop listening? For most people, around the elbow is where they stop really listening and start formulating their response. This is a problem, because speaking and listening involve many of the same brain areas, so once you go in response mode, your ability to listen deteriorates.” And, so does the conversation.

As such, a good conversationalist controls their impulse to respond, and listens to learn rather than listen to respond.

The few beats (pause) you take after your counterpart stops speaking, to finish listening, digest, and interpret, creates the space for you to really hear (see) what your counterpart is saying.

This negative space speaks volumes, you indicating to the person you’re speaking with that their last statement was impactful - a non-verbal gesture that gives them validity and shows you’re truly listening.

Plus, with a pause, you can then set up a response that continues driving a good conversation.

3) Leverage the “loop”

After a “pause”, you may want to consider using a “looping” question: When you repeat what the other person said and ask a follow-up question, in order to verify you interpreted them correctly.

Looping is important because in reality we tend to believe we are much more clear in our explanations or statements than we actually are.

As Brooks discusses, conversation experts recommend that when a conversation gets vague, loop back what you’ve heard and respond with a question.

Inevitably, you’ll get deeper in the conversation (which makes it better).

For example, you might tell me:

“I am considering changing jobs because my boss is really hard to work for…” and then assume I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Unless I’ve had this conversation with you before, I won’t know the context.

So, I should pause, loop back what you said, and then ask a follow-up question:

“What I hear you saying is that your boss is hard to work for, because they don’t set good expectations?”

You’d then say, “No, it’s because they are an a**hole.”

Then I’d repeat the pause, loop, question framework again:

“What I hear you saying is that your boss is mean, because they give harsh, non-constructive feedback?”

You’d finally admit, “No, it just seems like they don’t truly see or hear me when I talk about my needs. That’s really the issue.”

Now the conversation is getting somewhere…

…and that perhaps your boss should read “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Deeply and Being Deeply Seen” by David Brooks.

Example aside, in summary, pausing to reflect before responding, looping back what you hear to ensure you understand, and asking a follow-up question will dramatically improve your conversations.

And, if you’re not sure what questions to ask, ask for stories.

When someone is telling you something that happened, be it good or bad, recent or a while ago, don’t ask about what happened.

Ask about how they experienced what happened.

In the bad boss example from above, instead of asking “why do you think your boss doesn’t see you?” ask “how does your boss not seeing you and meeting your needs make you feel?”

When you get to the emotional side of a “happening”, the story will enrich the conversation.

While the three recommendations on how to have good conversations may help you see people better and them see you better, we are just scratching the surface.

There is much more to be said on how to create and harness the power of conversation.

For now, though, remember that good conversations aren’t just helpful for empathy.

Good conversations are attractive, productive, and give you the chance to maximize the impact you make on the people you meet and speak with throughout your life.

After all, as Glennon Doyle, a famous American Author, said: “Life is a conversation. Make it a good one.”